On all these boards any information about any of the individual members is kept as secret as that particular member wants their personal info to be. It's easy to stay anonymous- Don't want someone to know something about you? Don't mention that information & nobody will ever know. Even better (if you wish) create an identity for yourself. If I wanted to I could be a ... (I don't know) Coal miner from Tennessee who was crushed by a falling support beam instead of a firefighter from California very easily. Nobody would know my entire identity was made-up.

So after fighting with OWCP for so long I began looking for a support group of 'injured Federal workers'. Figured with thousands of Federal jobs, no way could I be the first with a permanent injury. Someone had to have gone through this before me.

After a while of searching I came across a place called Fedworkerscomp.net. On the surface, it looked like a Great place- All kinds of information to be had.. A place where help might be found.

Eventually I found out that while they call themselves "FedWorkersComp", it's really a bunch of Postal workers. Who, yes, ARE federal workers, but they don't seem to realize there are Hundreds of other Federal jobs... I think part of the reason everyone thinks every other member is a fellow package handler is that the list owners make it virtually impossible to know anything about any particular person on the list. While on one hand that is a good policy for secrecy, when the idea is to pass information back & forth about helping each other, not knowing who you're talking to makes that a bit difficult.

Well... After looking around the place for a while, It looks like there's simply too much information. It's like when a new website creator builds a site about her cat Fluffy, and on one page has a link-list about all things relating to cats. Now instead of a few links to truly pertinent information this person adds thousands of links to anything that even mentions "cats". There is so much overload the search boggs down & becomes useless. That's what I found while looking for information relating to OWCP on this site.

But in the process of not finding anything usefull I figured out they had some sort of "mailing list" there where a person could write in, ask a question of the folks who'd "been there done that", and hopefully get a usefull answer. Figuring that was easier than sifting through thousands of pages of 'might be usefull' information I decided to sign up.

What a dance that was. At first, I tried to bounce it through this place- The way I have my email server set up I can make up anything(at)krstofer.org & it will bounce to my real email. So if I want to see if ebay is selling my email address, I just use ebay(at)krstofer,org there & I know immediately. Well I tried that- It didn't work. So I signed up with my "real" email. First time that didn't work either. Had a small conversation with the list owner about traces & that sort of thing (read about that stuff here) while I asked "please sign me up." which eventually happened.

So I start getting these emails once a day- They come in sort of a weird format, but I figured "it is what it is".. And as I read them I come to realize this group isn't really a group of blanket federal workers... 90% of them are Postal employees. Does that make a difference? Not really.. Unless you're Not one of Them, as I came to find out.

So whenever I join a group I like to read for a while, get to know the players- find out what's going on... Finding out what was going on was fairly easy- 75% complaining, (The Postmaster makes me drive 50 miles to work) 15% chaff & 10% usable question / answer.. BUt as for getting to know the players? Impossible. Seems that Barb (the owner) and Paul (the "moderator") feel that no private individual has the right to not be anonymous. Want to say anything about yourself? Not allowed. Want to post your personal site? Not allowed. Want to share your email with the group? That's about as bad as asking to boil & eat your neighbor's baby with these guys.

Somehing these people don't seem to realize is this: Any individual has the ability to control how much information they give out when they join an internet message board or email list or whatever. If all I want you to know is my name, then that's all you know. But if I want you to know my name, my injury, the state I am from,the names of my cats, the depth of my well and how big my bald spot is I have the choice of giving out that information. Unless of cource I belong to the FedWorkersComp list.. And then NO individual to individual information exchange is allowed- EVERYTHING must go through the moderator.

So time passes & I start to figure out what's going on... The email arrives. There are usually several conversational "threads" in each email. Should you want to comment on one, you hit "reply", change the subject line to reflect what part you're talking about, make your comments & send it. Sounds easy right? Well... Here's where it gets a little strange.
It arrives at Home Base and the Moderator goes through it stripping out all the 'personal identifying stuff' and anything he decides just Doesn't Belong. I have a signature block that goes on every outgoing piece of mail unless I uncheck the box, right? Well once I left it on & I got a refusal notice- "We don't allow personal information or links to personal sites" or something. (rolls eyes) Big deal, right? Often when I wrote in I felt like what I'd imagine a reporter for Pravda who had a slight "Western" slant to his stories must have felt.. "Gee I wonder how much of this is going to make it out the other side of the censors?"

But.. THis place was the ONLY place I'd been able to find where my questions might be answered.. Answers that must be taken with a grain of salt, mind you as because of the "privacy" concerns, I had no idea who was answering & their qualifications. For all I know, a monkey wrote the answer to my question and since it sounded plausible, I might take it as truth.

Anyway.. Time goes on & I'm trying to figure out how a "Schedule Award" works. Now somehow in that process I pissed off this guy Paul somehow- I asked a rather specific question- "Which Doctor makes the determiantion as to how disabled I am? Mine, or do I have to see one retained by OWCP?" (or something to that effect.) He answered "Go read CA_810" which is a document with some answers in it, but not the specific one I was looking for. So in my next email in I named him by name & mentioned that fact. Then later I asked another question about if they've paid for something once, can they be forced to pay for it again? I wondered because they've paid for fillings & cleaning my teeth- (7 of which were smashed in the accident, long time readers will remember) and I need a few more fillings & would like some cleanings. Paul replied something to the effect of "IF YOU ARE KNOWINGLY DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL YOU BETTER STOP"... "Where the hell did that come from?" I wondered.. So I wrote back in "I am NOT knowingly doing something illegal, I just have questions. So I asked." INcidently, that answer of mine did not make it into the next 'mail to the group'. Gee wonder why huh.

So anyway.. After getting these things daily and reading them for a while I got to the point where if I wasn't expectiong an answer I would barely skim then delete the thing. I can only read so much pissing & moaning about how "The Postmaster made me do this or won't let me do that" before I get tired of it.. And this whole "helping eachother email thing" became like the odd washer you find while cleaning the garage. It might be usefull for something in the future.. But that chance of future use is probably not worth the time to pick it up now.

More time passes and I ask the occasional question, not really expecting much.. When one day I get this:

Today's Topics:

1. ***NOTICE FROM LISTOWNER*** (fedworkerscomp-admin@fedworkerscomp.net)

--__--__--

Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:52:16 -0700 To: fedworkerscomp@fedworkerscomp.net From: fedworkerscomp-admin@fedworkerscomp.net Subject: [Fedworkerscomp] ***NOTICE FROM LISTOWNER*** Reply-To: fedworkerscomp@fedworkerscomp.net

We have set up this list in order to protect all the injured and share= knowledge and support each other. That's why it's anonymous, and MESSAGES= ARE NOT TO BE POSTED OR FORWARDED ANYWHERE ELSE. That also includes anyone= (or business) cataloging messages for their own nefarious purposes. It has= come to my attention that things have occurred at various times by various= people and organizations. I am purposely being nebulous because I don't= want to reveal all I have come across or give anyone ideas. Suffice to= say, I WON'T TOLERATE THIS. Lots of people have worked very hard to= protect this list,and money (which is in short supply),has been spent to= make sure this is a safe zone. We don't even allow GMAIL addresses here= because they claim the right to all messages and their content. ANYONE FOUND TO BE VIOLATING THESE POLICIES WILL BE IMMEDIATELY= UNSUBSCRIBED AND BANNED PERMANENTLY. Thanks to everyone who has contributed and shared. Those who think they can= "get away with something" might do so, but they'll certainly get their= just rewards one way or another. Count on it! Thanks everybody for making this list a helpful and informative place. Take= care. Be well.

Barb
Knowledge is Power-Use It!

--__--__--

/////////////////////////////////**FEDWORKERSCOMP.NET FECALAND MAILING LIST**////////////////////////////////////////////////

FedWorkersComp.net (formerly FedupFeds) is an ALL VOLUNTEER, SELF-HELP and educational effort, as explained in our website at http://www.fedworkerscomp.net FEDWORKERSCOMP.NET is OWNED, RUN and MAINTAINED **SOLELY** by Paul and Barb as a labor of love and our contribution to ALL injured federal workers. We do not accept any contributions or charge for ANYTHING! ALL WE ASK IS TO DO ALL YOU CAN TO HELP ALL YOU CAN AND PASS IT FORWARD. Nobody is keeping score. This list is **PRIVATE**. DO NOT FORWARD any messages from this list to ANYONE or REPOST these messages anywhere else.This list is general information, NOT advertising, solicitation, legal or medical advice. All email addresses are PRIVATE and will NEVER be sold,rented, or revealed for ANY REASON. Please inform us of anyone trying to solicit you or asking for compensation for "representation" OR information OFF LIST. REMEMBER-You're the BEST of the BEST!! ~~Knowledge is Power-Use It!~~

///////////////////////////**FEDWORKERSCOMP.NET FECALAND MAILING LIST**//////////////////////////////////////////////////

** To POST a message, hit REPLY or send it to: fedworkerscomp@fedworkerscomp.net ** To UNSUBSCRIBE or change your subscription between DAILY DIGEST, NO MAIL or INDIVIDUAL EMAILS go to the list page at : http://fedworkerscomp.net/mailman/listinfo/fedworkerscomp

SORRY-WE DO NOT HAVE YOUR PASSWORD, BUT YOU CAN GO TO THE LIST PAGE AND REQUEST IT AND MAKE THE NECESSARY CHANGES-WE CANNOT DO IT BECAUSE OF SECURITY REASONS........

** Questions??Comments.. please send OFF-LIST to: help@fedworkerscomp.net

End of Fedworkerscomp Digest

Now after reading this "notice" and thinking about it for a bit, I began to wonder... What are these people so afraid of? I've been reading this list for a couple months now and I haven't ever seen one thing that any Government, 'Homeland Security', OWCP, or any "person from the opposing side" might find interesting. I mean Jeez- "Don't forward this!" and "Don't store this!" They make it sound like some Top Secret transmission, when it's a free list supposedly ANYONE can sign up for. So if anyone's allowed to read it, why not forward it to your cousin Bob who broke his leg carryin' the mail? One answer. The owner & moderator of the list want to be in Control.
Think about it- If any of these Bad People want to read this email thing all they have to do is get a ambigious email address & sign up. I'm sure they have. Have this thing delivered to that address & then bounced somewhere where it can be stored.. It's very easy to set something like that up. It's prolly set up as I type right now.. Hence the vague references to "nefarious individuals" in the above WARNING email.

It's really quite comical when you think about it.

So after thinking about that warning thing for a bit.. I began to wonder what made these two individuals so nervous in the first place? What freaked them out? Why the paranoia? I've read the stuff they send out. It's not very exciting. Nobody's real name is used- Nobody's "real" email.. Total anonymous freak-out, Batman.
Not only did I wonder what caused the freakout, I'd rather not have whatever happened to these 2 happen to me, so I decided to write in & ask. Here's what I wrote:

On 12/22/2005 at 4:13 AM K rs wrote:

Ok, Newguy over here- After reading this notice, I've been wondering about a few things:

Why all the secrecy? This thing is about as anonymous as anonymous can get- And while on one hand that's a good thing, when we're trying to pass information back & forth, not knowing anything about any of the other participants seems like it could be a hinderance.

Example: Maybe there's someone out there in a manual wheelchair who keeps damaging their feet when they bang into things because they can't feel anything below their chest. (like me) I built my own footplate (and many other "adaptive" things to help myself out) but I'm not allowed to give out any personal info, so nobody knows. THis person keeps on banging their feet, one gets infected and eventually they loose that limb. Extreme case, but you get the point- And sad because I could have easily told them of my adaption or even built one for them. But they never knew.

Now I'm not saying that everyone should have to "tell all" about themselves, but honestly I don't care if everyone here knows all about me. I have nothing to hide. And if my knowledge past what little I know about OWCP can help someone then I'm all for it.

So- Why the iron curtain of secrecy? The list owners here have gone to great lengths to keep everything shrouded and I can't help but wonder from what or who? Honestly, when I think back on the information I've seen here in these past couple months I cannot remember anything that some "OWCP Type" might find interesting as in "We have to silence that voice, they know too much" or something like that. I just wonder what is the "terrible thing or group" here that we must protect ourselves from.

Why not have a "message board" type discussion? Where questions asked last week / month / year are still available to be searched? Would keep the repition of questions down, and the newguy who shows up tomorrow could get up to speed very quickly.
Once one of these emails has been sent, since there is no archive anywhere (with the apparent exception of the one kept by said "nefarious" individuals) the information is lost. No one from "out there" can search through all previous emails & get an answer to a question they might have.. Thus they must ask it again.
Seems like instead of moving forward helping each other sometimes we might be stuck chasing our tails.
Sure, with a "message board" type discussion there's a little less anonymity, but nobody would know anything personal past what the individual members choose to tell. I even set one up back a few years ago with the intent of helping others- BUt I apparently can't tell you about it. Curious tho- I just went & looked & there's a thread there directing folks to fedupfeds.org site.

"Just Curious" (I would use my own name and provide a link to my site where I wrote all about the injury, the recovery, and current lives I've changed when I go speak to various groups about it, but...)

I sent it into the 'regular' address.. Yes, had I read all the long winded "stuff" at the end of every transmission from these guys I *could* have sent it "off list".. But I didn't even thinl of doing that, since I know Paul reads and edits everything anyway.. So I knew he'd find it eventually. And really, maybe it would have been good for everyone on the list to hear the answer- Thus they could avoid whatever smack-down happened long ago.

Here's the reply I recieved:

Questions or comments about how the list works should be sent offlist to me or Barb our listowner. That's policy. Your complaints about this list will not appear on this list.

It's only personal identifying information we don't want on the open list, email addresses, names, phone numbers. We prevent email address harvesting for commercial and other spam, and for other questionable purposes. No one gets spam from being on our list; no one gets annoying offlist nonsense or harassment from being on our list. OWCP does not get the information to nail down who you are. Whether you care personally or not isn't the point; there are other people who do care, and you don't care what they want, obviously. There's no ban on discussing your personal situation as it relates to your claim or condition. Two "terrible things or groups" to keep your personal identifying information from is OWCP and your agency.

We don't keep archives because everyone's situation is different and what applies to one may be wrong for another. It's fine with us when people bring up questions that have been raised before. If it's too much trouble to ask, then it isn't important enough to ask. Really, it's a lot easier to just ask the question instead of searching through years of messages. We have about 800 people here and it would take months for you to do through an archive.

The reason you haven't seen anything some "OWCP type" might find interesting, is we prevent that.

You can run your own list any way you want.

paul, webmaster@fedworkerscomp.net

By his signature block, Paul is the Webmaster.. So I have him to thank for that huge link-list. He's also missing a few things I think.. "email address harvesting" is impossible on the "standard" message boards. OWCP can only get whatever anyone chooses to tell on those boards, and it would take "months" to search an archive if everything was in 'dead tree format' and the searching was done by hand. We have computers now. Months of searching is reduced to milliseconds with even the most geriactric personal computers.

Well, he didn't answer any of my questions and went right into defending himself, so I wrote back:

On 12/22/2005 at 7:21 AM K rs wrote:

Wasn't a complaint, Paul.
They were questions. WHich you still didn't answer.

Guess that freaked him out, as I quickly received a reply: This list is a free service. Who are you to make demands?

Now I guess I have a "thing" with talking down jumpers, so I couldn't stop myself..

On 12/22/2005 at 2:28 PM K rs wrote:

Paul- I didn't think you would answer- I'm just curious as to why all the paranoia. Not a "demand" or an "attack", just a question. No need to get all up tight and defensive. But... Sometimes "They" ARE watching you.. Especially when you make all kinds of noise about how you're *not* doing anything that needs watching, but in the same breath that you've got a secret.

But- Like you said, you get to run your site however you want. If you want to be the King of Censorship while "keeping everyone safe" that's fine. Just seems to stifle the flow of information at times, when I thought the 'sharing of inforamation & ideas' was the intent of the whole place. (and I bet it takes up a bit of your own time...)

Anyway- Try to relax a bit. Not everyone is out to get you or wants to get into a fight.

Krs

Took a few hours, but then I got this:

Odd, isn't it, that nobody else in seven years has whined about censorship, just because we don't allow email addresses to be seen by any nut case out there who happens to get on our list. Our 800 list members like the anonymity just fine. Our list policies have nothing to do with me personally or Barb, our listowner. We are retired and do not have an active claim, and we have nothing to gain by putting our time and money into it. If you imagine we have no enemies because of what we're accomplishing, think what you like. You've never run a list on this subject so you have no way of guessing what's needed to keep it on course. Others have tried and failed because they just didn't know what they were doing or lacked the experience and background to deal with the subject or people involved. Why do you make that ridiculous claim that hiding email addresses stifles the flow of information? How does that interfere with sharing information and ideas? Anyone with anything to ask or say about claim handling can put it on the list. What exactly is your problem with that? Not knowing anything about how to handle a list on federal injuries, you wouldn't know there are a lot of people out there in clinical depression and affected other ways by medications and pain, some on the verge of suicide now and then. We will NOT have other people writing them offlist (to their email addresses) giving them advice privately that they're afraid to put on the list instead. There's an enormous amount of misinformation and bad advice out there, and anything said to our list members had better be on the open list where all can see and comment. You are not going to contact our members privately and they're not going to contact you. I've answered your questions in spite of the personal slurs you seem to enjoy so much. You keep up the personal slurs and you will be unsubscribed permanently. Find someone else to nitpick who has time to waste on that crap. paul, webmaster@fedworkerscomp.net

So now I'm a whining nutcase.. Who is asking for the emails of the list members so I can.. What, talk them into jumping? And still he refuses to answer the question...

By now I'm pretty much over the whole thing.. I'd get better results talking to a wall.
The last thing I sent was this:

On 12/22/2005 at 9:25 PM K rs wrote:

Did I say ANYWHERE I wanted your email list?
Relax!
Sheesh!

It's really not as bad as you think. But if you think "all can see and comment" then you really haven't been paying attention.

Anyway...

Now so far I've been trading comments with Paul who must have forwarded who-knows-what to "Barb", the owner who sent me this:

You know, you really need to learn to play well with others. Sheesh is right. Apparently you know so little, and act like you know so much. Go play in the corner and bother somebody who'll put up with you. Maybe you're in a wheelchair for a reason and you need to learn a little something about compassion and understanding and selfless effort. Please don't bother us anymore with your garbage. You're going in the kill file. Get a life.Go find somewhere else to bitch to-you're not welcome here. Instead of captain peligro you should call yourself captain Mierta-much more fitting......

Barb
Knowledge is Power-Use It!

So now I no longer get an email a day full of sniveling postal workers worried that someone or something is going to get them.

So by now I'm sure everyone's curious to see what it's all about.. Ok. Here's an example of one transmission of this list thing:

Today's Topics:

See? Pretty exciting huh? Yup.. Better hide that Quick before any Big Brother types catch sight of it..
It even contained a question of mine.. But see how much Crap had to be shoveled just for that? So not worth it.. Almost need a search function on the email itself to find what you're looking for. In fact, I've used 'CTRL-F' to get to what I wanted to read several times. So no wonder Paul isn't interested in building an archive. Can you imagine the mess that would be if the information was left in this format?

The thing I find really strange about it is you only get 1 part of the conversation per email. So unless you happen to remember what was in yesterday's mail, that is IF there was a part of it there yesterday.. Could be the day before, or the day before that.... Often it's hard if not impossible to figure out what's going on.

More evidence of paranoia- When I did a Whois search on fedworkerscomp.org I hit the wall newly implimented (in the last year or 2) by InterNic where with a few extra $$ a person can hide the regristration information for a domain name. So I went back in time a bit & looked up 'fedupfeds.org' their former domain name.. Here's what I found:

Domain ID:D88098465-LROR
Domain Name:FEDUPFEDS.ORG
Created On:03-Jul-2002 17:38:10 UTC
Last Updated On:12-Aug-2005 17:40:57 UTC
Expiration Date:03-Jul-2006 17:43:38 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Moniker Online Services Inc. (R145-LROR)
Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:MONIKER23658
Registrant Name:Role
Registrant Organization:Moniker Privacy Services
Registrant Street1:20 SW 27 Ave
Registrant Street2:Suite 201
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Pompano Beach
Registrant State/Province:FL
Registrant Postal Code:33069
Interesting huh? "Moniker Privacy Services" registered the domain name for them. So... The question STILL remains even after ALL this.. What are these people afraid of?

Maybe there just isn't an answer.. If you ask the guy in the basement bunker in Montana why he has an armory full of guns & 500 years of MRE's he'll tell you "The Government is out to Get Me."
Seems like the same thing is going on with this crowd. Not only do they really seem to enjoy keeping secrets and "protecting" their flock.. They seem to enjoy the power of censorship over that flock just as much. They claim to have "800 members".. I wonder how many of these "800 members" (quite a following for being around seven years huh?) are still active? I bet only 10 to 20%.

I'm sure in the beginning the intent was to actually help one another.. But now.. I'm not really sure what's going on. I know it's not worth my time to try & ferret out an answer here.. Better to just call the OWCP office & ask. So getting banned was probably a good thing.. Now I don't waste time reading it out of morbid curiosity, and I don't have to go through the dance of trying to remove myself from the list. Should I ever want to join again (Why I would I haven't the faintest, but..) all I have to do is get an email addy somewhere & sign up. Very easy. Sign my questions "Bob" and nobody's the wiser. And even if "They" have my IP squirreled away somewhere it's not like that's difficult to mask...

Anyone remember what's said about "Absolute Power"? A perfect example can be found right here. "We're not about getting mad or getting even... " They say.